Pianotech

• Tim Wrote:

  Thanks for the info.

  I was speaking with a friend today about tuning within the half second and this question came up. With all digital ETDs (that I know of at least), there is a small delay before the pitch goes on display. When milliseconds are of the essence and there is a 250 millisecond (or so) digital delay, how can we be sure that we are tuning within a tight enough window, unless using a stroboscopic tuner?

  
  ------------------------------
  Tim Foster RPT
  New Oxford PA
  (470) 231-6074
  -----------------------------
  

  Tim, 

  You are referring to the latency in the display of a tuning app. I understand that. Here is the solution. The Freeze Window. It allows the user to exactly set the time window length from the hammer strike to the stop point and that is the window length and then the result of the calculations are displayed. 

  In my latest video, How Spatial Position Affects Piano Tuning, link below,

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26zskT_GvkA&t=6s

  I show exactly how a spectrogram is made. You will not need to worry about any latency issues if the app uses and displays the Freeze Window, which is essentially the tuning result from first FFT block calculation. In this example it is from the point in time near the hammer strike to the end of the block time thereafter. The samples of sound that are captured during that block of time are used in the calculation. You then see the tuning result from that block. How far off it is from zero is then used to re-strike the hammer until iteratively the indicator shows nearly zero cents while of course the continuous indicator in the app keeps moving. The jittery spreading of the partials can be seen in the continuous indicator of an app, but most apps don't show us the details that I propose in the video. Jitter and spreading is 'real physics' going in in the piano sound, and of course the ear and brain hear it too, but can't measure it with the kind of precision that a machine can. 

  Steve N.

Thank you.

Also, to whom it may concern, I'm a little confused why the other posts were taken down. I'm neither a proponent or antagonist when it comes to PianoSens. This is obviously new technology and time will tell if there is demand for this kind of technology. One thing I've learned about this industry is it's not a "one size fits all." I'm sure some people will love the clarity of the unisons, others will find it sterile and uninteresting. I find the conversation fascinating and relevant.

• Tim Wrote:

  Thanks for the info.

  I was speaking with a friend today about tuning within the half second and this question came up. With all digital ETDs (that I know of at least), there is a small delay before the pitch goes on display. When milliseconds are of the essence and there is a 250 millisecond (or so) digital delay, how can we be sure that we are tuning within a tight enough window, unless using a stroboscopic tuner?

  
  ------------------------------
  Tim Foster RPT
  New Oxford PA
  (470) 231-6074
  -----------------------------
  

  Tim, 

  You are referring to the latency in the display of a tuning app. I understand that. Here is the solution. The Freeze Window. It allows the user to exactly set the time window length from the hammer strike to the stop point and that is the window length and then the result of the calculations are displayed. 

  In my latest video, How Spatial Position Affects Piano Tuning, link below,

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26zskT_GvkA&t=6s

  I show exactly how a spectrogram is made. You will not need to worry about any latency issues if the app uses and displays the Freeze Window, which is essentially the tuning result from first FFT block calculation. In this example it is from the point in time near the hammer strike to the end of the block time thereafter. The samples of sound that are captured during that block of time are used in the calculation. You then see the tuning result from that block. How far off it is from zero is then used to re-strike the hammer until iteratively the indicator shows nearly zero cents while of course the continuous indicator in the app keeps moving. The jittery spreading of the partials can be seen in the continuous indicator of an app, but most apps don't show us the details that I propose in the video. Jitter and spreading is 'real physics' going in in the piano sound, and of course the ear and brain hear it too, but can't measure it with the kind of precision that a machine can. 

  Steve N.

Tim,

Yes, just like ETDs themselves, some like 'em, some don't. I agree. I also am puzzled by why these posts/  threads are disappearing. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Thank you.

Also, to whom it may concern, I'm a little confused why the other posts were taken down. I'm neither a proponent or antagonist when it comes to PianoSens. This is obviously new technology and time will tell if there is demand for this kind of technology. One thing I've learned about this industry is it's not a "one size fits all." I'm sure some people will love the clarity of the unisons, others will find it sterile and uninteresting. I find the conversation fascinating and relevant.

• Tim Wrote:

  Thanks for the info.

  I was speaking with a friend today about tuning within the half second and this question came up. With all digital ETDs (that I know of at least), there is a small delay before the pitch goes on display. When milliseconds are of the essence and there is a 250 millisecond (or so) digital delay, how can we be sure that we are tuning within a tight enough window, unless using a stroboscopic tuner?

  
  ------------------------------
  Tim Foster RPT
  New Oxford PA
  (470) 231-6074
  -----------------------------
  

  Tim, 

  You are referring to the latency in the display of a tuning app. I understand that. Here is the solution. The Freeze Window. It allows the user to exactly set the time window length from the hammer strike to the stop point and that is the window length and then the result of the calculations are displayed. 

  In my latest video, How Spatial Position Affects Piano Tuning, link below,

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26zskT_GvkA&t=6s

  I show exactly how a spectrogram is made. You will not need to worry about any latency issues if the app uses and displays the Freeze Window, which is essentially the tuning result from first FFT block calculation. In this example it is from the point in time near the hammer strike to the end of the block time thereafter. The samples of sound that are captured during that block of time are used in the calculation. You then see the tuning result from that block. How far off it is from zero is then used to re-strike the hammer until iteratively the indicator shows nearly zero cents while of course the continuous indicator in the app keeps moving. The jittery spreading of the partials can be seen in the continuous indicator of an app, but most apps don't show us the details that I propose in the video. Jitter and spreading is 'real physics' going in in the piano sound, and of course the ear and brain hear it too, but can't measure it with the kind of precision that a machine can. 

  Steve N.

Tim,

Yes, just like ETDs themselves, some like 'em, some don't. I agree. I also am puzzled by why these posts/  threads are disappearing. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Thank you.

Also, to whom it may concern, I'm a little confused why the other posts were taken down. I'm neither a proponent or antagonist when it comes to PianoSens. This is obviously new technology and time will tell if there is demand for this kind of technology. One thing I've learned about this industry is it's not a "one size fits all." I'm sure some people will love the clarity of the unisons, others will find it sterile and uninteresting. I find the conversation fascinating and relevant.

• Tim Wrote:

  Thanks for the info.

  I was speaking with a friend today about tuning within the half second and this question came up. With all digital ETDs (that I know of at least), there is a small delay before the pitch goes on display. When milliseconds are of the essence and there is a 250 millisecond (or so) digital delay, how can we be sure that we are tuning within a tight enough window, unless using a stroboscopic tuner?

  
  ------------------------------
  Tim Foster RPT
  New Oxford PA
  (470) 231-6074
  -----------------------------
  

  Tim, 

  You are referring to the latency in the display of a tuning app. I understand that. Here is the solution. The Freeze Window. It allows the user to exactly set the time window length from the hammer strike to the stop point and that is the window length and then the result of the calculations are displayed. 

  In my latest video, How Spatial Position Affects Piano Tuning, link below,

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26zskT_GvkA&t=6s

  I show exactly how a spectrogram is made. You will not need to worry about any latency issues if the app uses and displays the Freeze Window, which is essentially the tuning result from first FFT block calculation. In this example it is from the point in time near the hammer strike to the end of the block time thereafter. The samples of sound that are captured during that block of time are used in the calculation. You then see the tuning result from that block. How far off it is from zero is then used to re-strike the hammer until iteratively the indicator shows nearly zero cents while of course the continuous indicator in the app keeps moving. The jittery spreading of the partials can be seen in the continuous indicator of an app, but most apps don't show us the details that I propose in the video. Jitter and spreading is 'real physics' going in in the piano sound, and of course the ear and brain hear it too, but can't measure it with the kind of precision that a machine can. 

  Steve N.

All it takes for a post to disappear is for any one member of the group to flag it. Moderators review the flagged posts and the reasonable ones reappear after a bit. At least that's how I understand it's supposed to work. 

Tim,

Yes, just like ETDs themselves, some like 'em, some don't. I agree. I also am puzzled by why these posts/  threads are disappearing. 

Peter Grey Piano Doctor 

Thank you.

Also, to whom it may concern, I'm a little confused why the other posts were taken down. I'm neither a proponent or antagonist when it comes to PianoSens. This is obviously new technology and time will tell if there is demand for this kind of technology. One thing I've learned about this industry is it's not a "one size fits all." I'm sure some people will love the clarity of the unisons, others will find it sterile and uninteresting. I find the conversation fascinating and relevant.

• Tim Wrote:

  Thanks for the info.

  I was speaking with a friend today about tuning within the half second and this question came up. With all digital ETDs (that I know of at least), there is a small delay before the pitch goes on display. When milliseconds are of the essence and there is a 250 millisecond (or so) digital delay, how can we be sure that we are tuning within a tight enough window, unless using a stroboscopic tuner?

  
  ------------------------------
  Tim Foster RPT
  New Oxford PA
  (470) 231-6074
  -----------------------------
  

  Tim, 

  You are referring to the latency in the display of a tuning app. I understand that. Here is the solution. The Freeze Window. It allows the user to exactly set the time window length from the hammer strike to the stop point and that is the window length and then the result of the calculations are displayed. 

  In my latest video, How Spatial Position Affects Piano Tuning, link below,

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26zskT_GvkA&t=6s

  I show exactly how a spectrogram is made. You will not need to worry about any latency issues if the app uses and displays the Freeze Window, which is essentially the tuning result from first FFT block calculation. In this example it is from the point in time near the hammer strike to the end of the block time thereafter. The samples of sound that are captured during that block of time are used in the calculation. You then see the tuning result from that block. How far off it is from zero is then used to re-strike the hammer until iteratively the indicator shows nearly zero cents while of course the continuous indicator in the app keeps moving. The jittery spreading of the partials can be seen in the continuous indicator of an app, but most apps don't show us the details that I propose in the video. Jitter and spreading is 'real physics' going in in the piano sound, and of course the ear and brain hear it too, but can't measure it with the kind of precision that a machine can. 

  Steve N.