Pianotech

  • 1.  Tuning stability (or lack thereof)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 13 days ago

    Hello all,

      I pitch raised and tuned an old Kimball baby grand today. It was tiny, looked less than 5 ft long and had sort of a french provincial case style. It was about 11 cents low, and I tightened all of the plate bolts before commencing. The tuning pins were solid torque wise except for a few that were maybe borderline. After pitch raising and tuning to A440 and while checking octaves, I discovered that many notes were flat again! I hit those again checking octaves and double octaves. Some notes would be badly out of tune again when I circled back around! I do a lot of concert tuning in my area and I know how to set a pin well. If the plate bolts are tight and the pins are not loose what would cause this piano to have difficulty holding a tuning? Thanks for all of your wisdom - I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts



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    Eric Werner RPT
    Medford OR
    (541) 301-7988
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  • 2.  RE: Tuning stability (or lack thereof)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 13 days ago
    Eric

    You’ve got a LaPetit grand. You’ll never get it to stay on tune. No one does. Those pianos were not made well to begin with. It’s the nature of the beast.

    Do the best you can and walk away.

    Wim.
    Sent from my iPhone




  • 3.  RE: Tuning stability (or lack thereof)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 13 days ago

    Those pianos were made as decorator pieces. I think many were used by realtors for staging in new home developments.



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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Tuning stability (or lack thereof)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12 days ago

    I have to respectfully disagree that the La Petite grands are untunable across the board. I have four of them in my database. Two tuned normally and without any issues. One I was never able to figure out what was going on with it or get it to hold for any reasonable amount of time. In the fourth one, I installed a Dampp-Chaser (an interesting experience in a piano of that design). Within a month, it started holding a tune again. I see that piano every six months, and for the last 3-4 years, it's been no more than 5-7¢ off pitch at the six month mark. (This is normal for my area.) In that case, the problem was environmental. 

    If you're having it shift that much during the tuning, I would look at the possibility of structural issues. It may be environmental, too. A Dampp-Chaser may help stabilize the soundboard but it won't help with a separating or unmated pinblock. Like others have said, the piano is old and has exceeded its life expectancy. It may be time for replacement. 



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    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    (256) 947-9999
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    www.FromZeroToSixFiguresBook.com
    www.PianoCraftTechnicalSchool.com
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Tuning stability (or lack thereof)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 13 days ago

    Hi Eric:

    Is there A/C in the house?  Open doors/windows?  I always blame the temperature fluctuation if my piano is drifting while I'm tuning.  Of course, you know the other things, like a cracked plate, etc.  If the angle down from the tuning pins to the agraffes or pressure bar is too steep, there might be a rendering problem.  Years ago, I had a problem with a certain Chinese brand, now defunct, that I couldn't tune.  With tight pins and sharp angles to the agraffes, it did not render well, and I would spend 3 hours struggling with them to tune.  And yes, if this is a LaPetit, I've tuned them also.  I don't remember having a problem like you describe, but that was ages ago.  
    I hope you figure it out.  Good luck.



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    Paul McCloud, RPT
    Accutone Piano Service
    www.AccutonePianoService.com
    pavadasa@gmail.com
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  • 6.  RE: Tuning stability (or lack thereof)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 13 days ago

    I wonder if the pinblock is not mated well to the plate flange, sometimes it can shift from one side to the other slightly. 



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    Tim Foster RPT
    New Oxford PA
    (470) 231-6074
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Tuning stability (or lack thereof)

    Posted 13 days ago
    I'm sure that there is a logical reason to the stability issue but I discovered the other day that the French refer to baby grands such as this as Crapauds

    Best wishes

    David P


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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    +44 7868385643



    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Tuning stability (or lack thereof)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 13 days ago
    Tim

    That would be entirely possible. That, along with weak construction, sloppy workmanship, and inferior products. 

    When they first came out, a Gospel church bought one, excited that they finally had a "grand" piano for their sanctuary, and within 2 months, they had literally pounded the action to smithereens. As Larry said, they were mostly a decorative piece of furniture that produced a piano sound when the keys were played. 



    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Tuning stability (or lack thereof)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 13 days ago
    Could be a myriad of causes and probably not just one.
    Poorly fitted pinblock, bridge issues, ribs/soundboard, string rendering problems, etc. 

    Unfortunately, you now own this problem. a candid but diplomatic discussion with the
    owner may be the only resolution short of shoring up every problem with this piano that
    you did not create. 

    Best of luck.




    --
    Dave Conte, RPT, CCT
    Owner, Rocky Top Piano
    Knoxville, TN
    817-307-5656





    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Tuning stability (or lack thereof)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12 days ago

    Eric,

    Frustrating...yes!

    Next time you get a chance, get under the pinblock with a mirror and look at the block/flange fit. If you find a nice gap there, take a photo of it with your phone cam and use it in a discussion of "how good pianos are made, and the ramifications of skipping certain steps for cost cutting reasons..."

    Whether this is in fact the culprit or not, if its a fact...it's a fact that cannot be ignored. Then you emphasize the additional fact that strict humidity control, with onboard system AND a full cover, is the best and most important step they can take to help the situation. If they don't want to invest in that there's nothing you can do about it. Its not your problem. 

    (I always add that the same advice goes for a $100k Steinway)

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor 



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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    (603) 686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: Tuning stability (or lack thereof)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12 days ago

    Mr. Werner,

    I have had some Kimballs from the time period of the La Petite that had loose or weak hitch pins. You might want to see if any of them are starting to lean forward. That would make a note go flat pretty fast. In any case the instrument has well exceeded its designed life span.



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    Karl Roeder
    Pompano Beach FL
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