Pianotech

I have an appointment coming up for a tuning that involves a Steinway D and a Kawai GS-70 on stage for a piano duo concert. By now you already know what my question is. What's the best way to tune them so that they don't strangle each other? Customer is aware that there will be compromise involved. I'm thinking that if I took the IH readings from the Steinway and used them to tune the Kawai, that might work. Or should I just tune them to what they individually want to be and let them fight it out? Not that this changes anything but this is a long term existing customer, a church, who has decided that renting a matching D is just not in the budget, so they are moving the Kawai from the choir room, two floors down, to the worship center for this concert. 

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Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
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Geoff,

Tune each piano using OTSP. The problem is that the highest octave on the Steinway will be much sharper than on the Kawai. Set the high treble slider on the Steinway to -3 and recalculate the tuning. That will lower C8 by 9¢. Look at the difference of C8 between the pianos. If needed raise the high treble slider on the Kawai. Each number raises C8 by 3¢. The Steinway has much more stretch than the Kawai. Your goal is to bring the highest 15 notes into better alignment. Below A6 all of the notes will be closer to each other.

Carl Lieberman
Sent from my iPad
CarlPianoTech.com


Original Message:
Sent: 5/24/2024 10:53:00 PM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: Tuning different sized pianos for piano duo concert

Geoff

This topic has been discussed several times over the past 10 years. If memory serves me correctly, I think the prevailing thoughts are to tune each piano to itself. Unless there are going to be passages with both pianos playing the same notes, slowly, no one is going to hear the slight imperfections between the two tunings, anyway, but each piano will be in tune to itself.  And, you don't have to go back and tune them again after the program. 

Wim

Carl --

This actually makes sense. The bass notes are less sensitive to beats created by tuning differences because the frequencies are so low. It takes very little difference in the treble sections, however, because the frequencies are much higher and therefore much more sensitive to those differences. Next question, then, is why is there such a big difference in treble stretch between a large and small piano? String lengths up that high are very similar so I would not expect them to behave that differently. Is this because the IH in the middle of a larger piano, with longer strings than a smaller piano, forces the high treble to be stretched that much in order to work with those lower notes?

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Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-25-2024 02:00
From: Carl Lieberman
Subject: Tuning different sized pianos for piano duo concert

Geoff,

Tune each piano using OTSP. The problem is that the highest octave on the Steinway will be much sharper than on the Kawai. Set the high treble slider on the Steinway to -3 and recalculate the tuning. That will lower C8 by 9¢. Look at the difference of C8 between the pianos. If needed raise the high treble slider on the Kawai. Each number raises C8 by 3¢. The Steinway has much more stretch than the Kawai. Your goal is to bring the highest 15 notes into better alignment. Below A6 all of the notes will be closer to each other.

Carl Lieberman
Sent from my iPad
CarlPianoTech.com



Original Message:
Sent: 5/24/2024 10:53:00 PM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: Tuning different sized pianos for piano duo concert

Geoff

This topic has been discussed several times over the past 10 years. If memory serves me correctly, I think the prevailing thoughts are to tune each piano to itself. Unless there are going to be passages with both pianos playing the same notes, slowly, no one is going to hear the slight imperfections between the two tunings, anyway, but each piano will be in tune to itself.  And, you don't have to go back and tune them again after the program. 

Wim

Original Message:
Sent: 5/25/2024 6:02:00 AM
From: David Pinnegar
Subject: RE: Tuning different sized pianos for piano duo concert

Geoff - this is one of the things that I specialize in and have the answer to. What is the repertoire? Try a Kellner temperament and if that might be promising I'll help you to nail it.

Best wishes 

David P 

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David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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+44 1342 850594

Interesting comments but I'd emphasize that this is not a matter to over think or stress out about. Let's use the knowledge we already have: Chamber ensembles (e.g. clarinet + violin/viola/cello!) have wildly different inharmonicities specifically and tonal envelopes in general. Yet, they sound good when each instrument is in tune with itself and set at A-440. This is even much more the case with an entire orchestra (Glockenspiel, harp and tympani plus winds and strings!?!?). But it works out just fine. If orchestras stressed out over the questions being asked here, they'd go nuts. 

So, what's important is that each instrument have its own consistent tonal integrity. In my work with piano duos (I was the regular technician for one touring duo for several decades plus a few others) I have been told that they specifically do not want the two pianos to be identical. 

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Keith Akins RPT
Menominee MI
(715) 775-0022
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Keith --

Oh, I wasn't stressed. I knew that I would be able to handle whatever recommendations I received here. I've learned a bit and am now confident, and comfortable with the knowledge that this is not going to be a problem situation. 

Thanks to all for the helpful and informative replies.

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Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
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Original Message:
Sent: 05-25-2024 23:53
From: Keith Akins
Subject: Tuning different sized pianos for piano duo concert

Interesting comments but I'd emphasize that this is not a matter to over think or stress out about. Let's use the knowledge we already have: Chamber ensembles (e.g. clarinet + violin/viola/cello!) have wildly different inharmonicities specifically and tonal envelopes in general. Yet, they sound good when each instrument is in tune with itself and set at A-440. This is even much more the case with an entire orchestra (Glockenspiel, harp and tympani plus winds and strings!?!?). But it works out just fine. If orchestras stressed out over the questions being asked here, they'd go nuts. 

So, what's important is that each instrument have its own consistent tonal integrity. In my work with piano duos (I was the regular technician for one touring duo for several decades plus a few others) I have been told that they specifically do not want the two pianos to be identical. 

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Keith Akins RPT
Menominee MI
(715) 775-0022
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